Comments

AMEN. I have said this for 10 years to my employers. The amount of incoming personal has fallen short of the demand for 10-12 years and they are not qualified.

Posted by: Phil De Young on July 30, 2007

I strongly agree and think CEO's, CFO's and staff should follow thru with watching a project on a line from start to finish.

Posted by: Lisa on July 30, 2007

Keith, I could not agree more. Managers where I work value an untested newbie with a diploma from any old place more than they do a guy with 15+ years of experience. Even though I got an MBA, I still labor under a disadvantage because managers value "new blood" more than us oldtimers with knowledge. And if we are not being downsized or laid off, we are voting with our feet. I'm tired of getting cost of living raises every year while the newbies get bonuses. Remember, people don't quit companies - they quit bad supervisors.

Posted by: Tres on July 30, 2007

Some down sizing has to do with paying out pensions. If the employee does not have the alotted time in , they lose their pension in some cases.

As for the aging work force, most of us want to stay working. Alot of employers feel it's to their benefit to hire younger employees than to face the possoble absteneeism that may come with the mature work force. It's a shame that they fail to reconginize the knowledge base/expereience they lose. It's easier to start up a packagin line with employees who have some knowledge then with those that don't. I just recently went through this. We moved, and with the move came new procedures and technology, fortunately we didn't lose any of our experienced employees. We of course, had a deadline to meet. If we would have had to start out fresh there would of have been no chance of hitting the deadline. We actually got everyone trained ahead of time by using our experience employees.

Posted by: Lea Weber on July 30, 2007

I see this every day and it is getting worse. I find the best customer is a skilled experienced person who understands and can make decisions. I find decision making is becoming a lost art since new people lack the information and experience to quickly attack and solve problems.

Posted by: Paul Zepf on July 30, 2007

I agree that today companies do not care about the experienced worker. This is very true in the specialized technical areas.

Posted by: Robert Carroll on July 30, 2007

Thoroughly concur with your thinking and logic on this subject.
Some companies just toss their older experienced employees aside. It was called the "Over 50 Syndrome" I sincerely hope that as you said with all the technological experience gained over the years by working on the line, the best and most logical solutions and ideas come from the shop floor. If they are not being listened to, What a waste .

Posted by: T.J. Logie on July 30, 2007

I would like to see companies
establish programs to provide after-retirement opportunities to packaging veterans. I am about a year and a half away from retiring and would like a situation where I could keep active in the industry in which I have spent my whole career. My vast experience should be attractive to some company.

Posted by: Ed Berger on July 30, 2007

Had I been in the military, technically, I would have been a Viet Nam era veteran. I agree with points above 100%. I was "downized" over a decade ago while in the midst of building my original design of a proprietary system that revolutionized packaging operations for one of the company's flagship brands. This is the risk of being an "employee at will" in a large corporation. There are probably dozens of engineeers out there with similar experiences. In retrospect, it was probably the best thing that could have happened with respect to my career and professional development.

Posted by: Gregory Skurka on July 30, 2007

Fully agree. And its not only packaging but ALL technology areas.

Posted by: JOHN EFSTATHIOU on July 30, 2007

I agree with your comments. I would suggest also that what you say here goes well beyond the packaging industry and applies almost universally across the board in the US - and, I bet, across the world. When you can exchange one 50 or 60 something for two twenty somethings and have change left over, it seems that this new math almost always comes up with companies opting to divest themselves of the experience and make up for it with extra inexperienced bodies. To bad for the US.

Posted by: Dan Davenport on July 30, 2007

I agree with your comments concerning a skilled workforce. They came at an excellent time, as I am requestinfg a state traing grant.

We wish to transfer skills to the next generation, just as they transfered their skills to us. With that said, we also need to upgrade the skills of our current workforce to stay "current" with the technology that is evolving on the manufacturing floor.

Posted by: Howard Scheetz on July 30, 2007

I totally agree with what has been said in the article.

I strongly feel that the oldies should not be retired but theyu may leave the organization when they feel physically not capable of carrying on. They should ,in such a case be encouraged to visit the plant at intervals and their advise listened to. Thanks

Posted by: Subramanian Sivaraman on July 30, 2007

You got that right.More and more companies will use contractors/consultants to do a project. Millions of $ are wasted since nobody can manage them. This is called SAVIGS. In the long run is WASTE of company funds. But, hey marketing guys are running companies and what do they know about engineering?

Posted by: andrew on July 30, 2007

I am a "Seasoned" or "Senior Level" engineer specializing in packaging. Since 2002 I have been contracting because: A) I was "Outsourced" for reasons you name; and B) I contract at companies who hire me because they let their in - house experience go out the door. Nice rates of pay too!

Posted by: Glenn Smith on July 30, 2007

I have a somewhat different insight. On the upside we employ 'new' oldies firstly because they know what they are talking about and secondly because they don't need to prove aything.

On the downside it happens now and again that '20 years experience' really means 1 years expeience 20 times over.

But the real problem is that the customer (thats you and your neighbour) won't pay the little extra that it does cost to retain a an oldie (i.e. you and your neighbour) but think that one newy (i.e. your daughter or your neighbours son) can bring a bit of go into the operation.

Posted by: Alfred de Greet on July 31, 2007

Keith you nailed it. But I still feel as valuable as used carbon paper at work. The "new blood" where I work flows in and out of the door every season with many examples of saviors who are quickly recognized as mercenaries. Untested, unseasoned and unreliable. My company has fallen under the spell that a collection of semi-engaged people loosely assembled as a team with a weak leader can do it all! Dinosaurs are only good for making oil-bury them deep.
It is a rude corporate awakening when those of us who were in the design stages, installed, started, and nursed every new equipment installation and package change for several decades are across town selling our experience to others who appreciate and pay well for it. It isn't all cruel when a person who has learned well, practiced at another's expense, and saved and invested gets a chance to roll over their retirement savings into accounts that are truly our choice and still sell our services to a higher bidder while collecting a well deserved retirement check to boot. It's sad to see American Industry selling out many collective futures- both working class and executives. P.S. The same boards who cheer for every worker cut will someday determine there isn't a need for nearly as many upper level managers too.

Posted by: Tom Hergenrader on July 31, 2007

Keith,

The more conferences we have, the more presentations I see, the more I become convined everything comes down to leadership that drives innovation, applauds mistakes, and builds teams effectively.

Projetcs=people + politics

Posted by: Jim Chrzan on July 31, 2007

I was downsized by a company that used to be part of the DJIA before they started letting talent slip through their fingers. Toyota, who this year passed GM, has revitalized the use of "master craftsmen" to innovate and ensure quality. I think that what we are discussing is another example of arrogant U>S> corporations destroying themselves while paying their CEO's outlandish salaries for doing so.

Posted by: jeff jacobs on July 31, 2007

Earlier this year 2007 happen my retirement after 36 years of professional activity and 28 in the field of the Packaging. I am very in agreement with the expressed thing by Keith since I have lived it last 2 year when all my colleagues have retired. The young people whom they replaced to us did not have interest in knowing our experiences and knowledge because they consider is outside of time. I am sure that this Company will face many problems to efficiently solve the activity in packaging.

Posted by: Gabriel valencia on August 5, 2007